Jisho

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3 Replies ・ Started by jamesnakagawa at 2024-09-01 15:53:51 UTC ・ Last reply by flayxis at 2024-09-03 12:07:00 UTC
This is a discussion about 独立データ記述項

What is this?

Seems like a glitch! Where did this entry come from? I see it replicated across multiple Japanese dictionaries.

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flayxis at 2024-09-01 18:59:22 UTC

It's probably not repeated in multiple dictionaries but just in a single one: JMdict. Many different websites and apps are using this dictionary, but it's not multiple dictionaries, just different apps using the same data source.

As for where that comes from, the answer is probably the programming language COBOL. It's a bit on the older side, and came into being when we were still using punched cards to write programs on.

In any case, to manage data when writing a COBOL program, you'd use these data items that come with a hierarchy. There are top-level data items (level 1, or "records"), and you can then group other data items in a tree-like structure up to level 49. But there are also some special data items, for example the level 77. That can be used to declare a data item as stand-alone, completely independent of the hierarchy that I just described.

Now looking at the JMdict entry here, 独立データ記述項 obviously just means something like "stand-alone data entry", but that's pretty much what a 77-level data item would be in COBOL. In fact, you can still find the exact term used here if you look into documentation such as these: https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cobol-zos/6.4?topic=glossary (This is for COBOL used in IBM z/OS)

Now what I don't know is how exactly this item made it into JMdict. Looking at the database interface at https://www.edrdg.org/jmwsgi/entr.py?svc=jmdict&sid=&q=2379330.1 we can see it has been here since at least May 24th, 2008, but it has probably been in EDICT for much longer (the project was originally founded at some point in the early 90s).

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Fredora at 2024-09-03 08:12:53 UTC

looks like a normal entry to me
why would you think it's a glitch??

6d4b0d7986f5ee4c159a7e5fef92e241
flayxis at 2024-09-03 12:07:00 UTC

@Fredora: The "(in COBOL)" part of the gloss was added by Jim Breen after I suggested a similar edit through the JMdictDB web interface. Seems like Jisho.org already updated their version of JMdict in the meantime. Before, the gloss was only "77-level-description-entry" which indeed might look confusing because there wasn't any specific context except for the computing tag.

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