Jisho

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45 Replies ・ Started by reptyle101 at 2021-09-26 02:24:20 UTC ・ Last reply by jishoborg at 2021-10-14 07:19:28 UTC

Why removing classic jisho?

Personally I find new jisho very inconvenient to use due to the huge amounts of empty white space hurting my eyes, and the layout being confusing to parse than classic with different font sizes scattered all over the place and big gaps between everything, compared to classic being quick and simple having a neat table with all info for an entry in one row.

If I search for a word on classic, I can see lots of entries at once, but on this version only 2 or 3 results fit on my screen at a time due to massive amount of empty wasted space around everything.

Are you sure we can't have classic stay around even if it's not updated? Or at least implement a dark mode of some kind or layout option with more condensed results so this version isn't painful to use?

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darlo at 2021-09-26 02:29:24 UTC

After the new version came out I stuck with the classic because it's just ... better. I much prefer the separated search boxes so you could really get what you are after. If you need the Japanese word for Sun, just type it in the English word box (now you have to type it in and then click the link to say that you were actually looking for Sun and not すん. I don't even know how searching for example sentences on the new version works.

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Leebo at 2021-09-26 03:54:05 UTC

Did I miss something? Where is there something about new versions or classic versions.

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TheTripod at 2021-09-26 06:47:47 UTC

Signed up just to say this pretty much. Have been using classic ever since it became classic. The new UI is just hot web 3.0 garbage that's obviously designed for smartphone trash.

Sad to see yet another website kill off a good desktop interface for something far more annoying to use, but hopefully someone can just re-host it maybe.

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Lyza at 2021-09-26 07:15:55 UTC

ive been using jisho for 4 years. it's been like this ever since... is there somehow a different version I dont know about?

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Leebo at 2021-09-26 07:25:11 UTC

@Lyza yeah... no idea.

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Leebo at 2021-09-26 07:33:05 UTC

Ah, found it.

http://classic.jisho.org/

I see... people just being picky :)

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Kimtaro Admin at 2021-09-26 07:33:20 UTC

@Leebo, @Lyza I am retiring classic.jisho.org, the previous version of Jisho that I kept around when I launched this site.

The reson being that I am no longer able to maintain it. It's written in an architecture that I no longer work with, so I don't have the knowledge to keep it running.

Also, the data is over 10 years old at this point, and there have been countless updates and fixes to the dictionary data since then that is not reflected on that site. It is simply not good to keep running a site that presents outdated and in many cases wrong data.

@reptyle101 The sort order on the classic site is very bad compared to current Jisho, so you shouldn't need to look through as many results to find what you're looking for on the current site.

I do intend to add dark mode to Jisho at some point in the future. In the meantime you can either use a browser extension like https://darkreader.org, or a user style from https://userstyles.org/styles/browse/jisho

@darlo To force current Jisho to search for exactly what you type, and not do automatic kana conversion, you can surround the search term with "". To search for sentences you can either add the #sentence tag to your search, or click the "All" dropdown to the left of the search bar and click on Sentences.

@TheTripod I'm sad to hear you think the current site is garbage. Hopefully the improvements I plan on making over the next few years will make it better for your use case.

I will also say that I did open source the classic version, so anyone is welcome to run it themselves: https://github.com/kimtaro/jisho.org

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TheTripod at 2021-09-26 09:21:58 UTC

@Kimtaro

Oh wow, didn't expect the actual dev in here. No offense to this site in particular, I just find most all modern sites designed for touch-devices in mind (with extra whitespace/unnecessary fancy rendering graphics/etc) to be a great leap backwards from the simple, fast-rendering pages of the past like classic.

That less lean UI, combined with a ever so slightly slower to respond UI (at least in the radical search menu which is what I use most of the time), and ""modern"" design elements like needing to click 'more' to show all kanji with matching radicals when there are many results instead of having it all on one nice page, is just a step backward for me. It's not just this site of course though, I understand with the rise of touch-devices like smartphones in the past decade that designers of course want to tailor their sites to those devices which have ever so regrettably become the majority on the internet.

You have my thanks for maintaining it this long of course and giving me this tool I've used for so many years, and no one can blame you for not maintaining something that's doubtlessly 1-5% or so of your traffic these days. And thank you greatly for open-sourcing classic, I'll probably just end up running a local instance of it then (guess it'll be even faster too :P).

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Leebo at 2021-09-26 09:38:41 UTC

@TheTripod why is it "regrettable" that I can study Japanese on the train, or anywhere I don't want to lug my desktop tower around.

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TheTripod at 2021-09-26 09:50:30 UTC

@Leebo

Mainly because as mentioned a) such mobile-oriented look (comparatively) trash on a desktop workstation where one generally can work much more efficiently and b) they basically all render slower than a simple web 1.0 UI interface thanks to the fancy dynamic elements they love shoving into pages these days.

It wouldn't be an issue if developers didn't drop the actual desktop interface while catering to the iToddlers and the such at the same time, but due to time/cost issues of course that is the regrettable direction the internet is heading in these days with dumbed-down, slower interfaces everywhere designed for some 5" screen.

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Leebo at 2021-09-26 09:59:36 UTC

Again, don't really see why studying or working on the go makes someone an "iToddler" but I don't think we'll see eye to eye on it, so I'll drop it.

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TheTripod at 2021-09-26 12:45:30 UTC

Never said working on the go on a mobile device is inherently wrong. Again the issue is when everything is re-designed to cater to those mobile device displays and input methods, bringing down the usability and efficiency of everyone else on actual workstations.

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Sitensis at 2021-09-27 09:32:48 UTC

Such a shame classic is going away and all those years the issues of the new UI hasn't been adressed. Admittedly I don't know much about running a website and its expense/income balance, but if the only reason Classic is shutting down is not being updated, I don't think that's an issue to be honest. It works, and it works better than the new one IMO.

Let me illustrate the disadvantages of the new UI by an example.

I saw this announcement when I wanted to look at how the character 裏 was properly written.

1) In the old version when I write Ura, I can see 13 results without scrolling the page. This is an important feature considering how common it is to have different words having the same reading in japanese. In the new version, I can only see one result without scrolling. If the first result isn't the one you're looking for, you cannot take a quick look at results, you need to scroll one by one.

2) As I said, I was looking for the writing method. In the old version, I have immediate access links to relevant pages (Kanji details, or sentences). In the new version, I have to go through the meaning (which is irrelevant for me at the moment) and click "details", to be presented with... the exact same information? (Why?) I have the Kanji on the right now, which I have to click on details, again.

3) Okay, we're on the Kanji page for 裏 finally. In the old version, I can see the whole process of how it is written in a single image. In the new version, I have to scroll again to see the whole process. The image itself also look aliased (jaggy lines) which is unpleasant and looks amateurish.

I hope the UI could be improved taking into account these inefficiencies, although I'm sorry to say that my hopes aren't high since the design doesn't seem to be changed in the slightest since the downgrade in 2015. Not all people study Japanese in the train as a stimuli for passing time, so the UI should not be pure mobile oriented, which is 100% that way right now. I like to take my pen and paper sometimes, and being distracted from your study subject fighting the UI, having to scroll so often when you are only utilizing 1/3 of the screen available is not good design.

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Leebo at 2021-09-27 12:30:18 UTC

@Sitensis you can get directly to the kanji page by using the kanji tag when you search. Yeah, I guess you have to scroll when you get to that page if you're on mobile, but it sounded like you're not on mobile, so I'm not sure what the problem is. On desktop you can immediately get from the homepage to seeing the diagram for writing 裏 in one click.

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Leebo at 2021-09-27 12:43:40 UTC

Also, if you're not familiar with what it takes to run a website, it seems strange to just assume that there's no justification for retiring the classic version. Honestly, I'm surprised he keeps the site up at all, seeing as it's just a side project, and mostly thankless task (though you do get the occasional person to come by and say it's garbage apparently.)

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nwns at 2021-09-27 13:34:15 UTC

Hello!
I signed up here just to comment, since I just saw the announcement on classic.jisho.
I have been using classic jisho for over 10 years and not even once had I thought about switching to new version. As many already said before, there are so many disadvantages on new website and it is so much less convenient to use, compared to old version. I always recommended my students to use the classic version, too. I feel truly sad to hear, that it will be suddenly gone and I can't imagine switching to new version after all these years. If the only problem is that the classic version is not up to date, I really don't see any reason to let go of it. I hope that after seeing that there are still people who need and cherish classic version, admin will reconsider or someone else will take it up. OR at least the new website will get improved UI.
Also thank you for the past 10 years that I spent on classic.jisho almost everyday, I wouldn't be where I am now without this website. It was fun while it lasted.

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raishinpu at 2021-09-27 18:47:21 UTC

I've been using jisho for something like a decade, and it's always heart-wrenching to see a beloved tool, one that made you sharper and wiser and better, vanish into nothingness. What is even sadder is that new people will never get to experience the demure perfection it had, and if you ever try to explain it to them, they wouldn't understand and would think you a nostalgic old fool.

You take away jisho now as is your right, but think of the future: what was so great about jisho? The compacity. How hard will it be to make an alternate view (like how some site can sort either by grid or lines)? switch the portrait display to landscape, remove white spaces, use a smaller font, make details like example sentences optional through a tickbox in the settings (like rikaichamp had), while at it make it possible to choose which dictionary (words or kanji) you want to browse, this way either info won't cramp up the space of the other, and voila, old jisho can keep existing with a new code.

Thank you for all these year. ;_;

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ScarlettDalila at 2021-09-27 22:35:39 UTC

Classic Jisho is a great tool, and I personally dislike the new Jisho.org layout and bright colours. New Jisho is certainly pretty, and has great content, but it is very inconvenient to use, with huge amounts of large space which takes too much time to parse and scroll down.
It is quite a pain to search for sentences in new Jisho, as opposed to the clear lines in Classic Jisho.
Classic Jisho is a great tool, I've been using it since 2011, and have no problem finding everything I need there (I use it all the time!!!).
Would it be a problem to leave Classic Jisho as it is, even if it's not up to date?

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imomushiro at 2021-09-28 00:30:55 UTC

i've used classic.jisho.org for a good amount of translation work (alongside linguee and native japanese dictionaries); the ease of referencing the sentence corpus and the amount of results displayed on the screen at one time has always made it my go-to, even after the introduction of the newer site. It's much more efficient, basic and streamlined, like a lot of modern japanese sites still are (yahoo.com vs yahoo.co.jp, for example).

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imomushiro at 2021-09-28 00:51:36 UTC

sorry to double post, but there's another reason why the amount of vocabulary information displayed at once per page is an advantage for classic.

say you're referencing a physical book, and can't copy-paste. if a long technical term comes up, with unfamiliar kanji, on the classic jisho site you might just construct the first one or two characters from the radical builder and then scroll until you find the word. this takes a lot longer to do on the new site- as it prioritizes a greater depth of information displayed on individual dictionary entries. the classic site emphasizes quantity of entries.

eventually you do start to memorize the locations of the radicals in the chart, but classic jisho is still faster in this situation, and involves less squinting.

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Jaraya at 2021-09-28 13:20:47 UTC

I created a search in Chrome that already marked the option "Kana as romaji" so that I could see in Romaji, how do I do this on the current site?
by Google Translate

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jishoborg at 2021-09-28 18:14:58 UTC

If I search for a word on classic, I can see lots of entries at once, but on this version only 2 or 3 results fit on my screen at a time due to massive amount of empty wasted space around everything.

So much this. I've retained classic this long because I used jisho as a, uh, jisho. I totally get not maintaining ancient tech stack, and I knew it would have to go away at some point, but I kept hoping some kind of compact mode would be implemented to provide a more list-like output, or some kind of API that would let me do it for myself.

This is classic jisho in a Vivaldi windowed tab, where I use 4 panes to let me use 4 different translation resources in a window:

https://files.catbox.moe/k3jivz.png

This is jisho.org with the same search at the default display size:

https://files.catbox.moe/84yfot.png

This is jisho.org font zoomed to display the same number of non-name entries (which I didn't ask for):

https://files.catbox.moe/x0g1gk.png

Here is the Apple Dictionary rendering of the Super Daijirin search in roughly the same window size:

https://files.catbox.moe/szxa3r.png

The redesign was a huge step backwards in info density. I get that it was also intended to be mobile friendly, and I'm not going to include another example here, but on an iphone 7 it shows exactly one entry without scrolling.

I hate to criticize the site because it is in most respects a much more capable application. It's also not like any other online edict lookup is any better now (thanks, Bootstrap!) although none use quite as much whitespace as jisho.org.

Classic was pretty much the most compact, info-dense edict lookup site on the Internet, which is why I used it so long. Needless to say, I'm sorry to see it go, ironically the new winner is any of several Japanese E-J lookup sites because lol Japanese web design still in Heisei era. But here's my wish on my way out the door for some kind of "Classic mode" that would provide a list-like compact display like old Classic Jisho. And thanks for all the fish.

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JimBreen at 2021-09-29 00:31:41 UTC

Hi everyone. Jim Breen here.

While I can understand that some people are concerned over the loss of the classic version of jisho, the key point, as Kimtaro wrote, is: "the data is over 10 years old at this point, and there have been countless updates and fixes to the dictionary data since then that is not reflected on that site. It is simply not good to keep running a site that presents outdated and in many cases wrong data."

I am the one on the receiving end of complaints about amendments not appearing, entries being out-of-date, etc. etc. Once I realised that some of the complaints related to what people were seeing on the classic jisho version, I contacted Kim.

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Leebo at 2021-09-29 05:22:51 UTC

Yeah, I just tried searching for 拡散希望 on the classic site, since I figured it was something that was probably added more recently than 10 years ago. It wasn't on the classic version, but it was on the current version.

People who want Kimtaro to keep the classic version around are really okay with it not being updated? A few people have said that. The look of the site is more important to you than the content being accurate and up-to-date? That's just strange to me.

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raishinpu at 2021-09-29 07:07:25 UTC

The new UI is that unusable to some people Leebo, accuracy of data doesn't matter if it's ultimately unusable. Even after ten years I imagine 99% of classic jisho data is still accurate, because the language itself hasn't changed that much. Really sad to hear people complaining to Jim though, and of course it's not the kind of problem that would go away even if you added an "outdated" disclaimer on classic. That said it's quite frustrating to imagine jisho closing over complaints when it's praised and used by so many people.

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Leebo at 2021-09-29 08:15:53 UTC

I'm sure Kimtaro knows how many people are using it. So far we do know it's at least ten or so people, so that's something.

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ScarlettDalila at 2021-09-29 21:39:17 UTC

The vast majority of words that any learner will ever need is in Classic Jisho.
Sorry to insist on this, but it is not really an issue that Classic is not up-to-date: there are warnings and links to new Jisho every where in Classic. Users not happy with Classic, can use new Jisho.

However, if Classic Jisho users are happy with it, and NOT happy with new Jisho, why remove Classic?

Could you please just leave Classic as it is for those users who have different accessibility needs (like myself), for whom new Jisho poses a barrier due to the extra need for typing and scrolling etc.

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reptyle101 at 2021-09-30 03:36:54 UTC

I use jisho personally to help me read manga and check stroke order and such and everything I need is on the classic site since jp hasn't really changed much. The vast, vast majority is the same.

If the only issue is thinking it's out-of-date, surely you can just put a clear notice at the top saying it's no longer being updated and recommending this version for educational use?

I can see that being a big deal for more professional stuff, but for hobby use classic is a lot better due to the better searching and much quicker to parse dictionary-like design that can have many entries on screen at a time. It's just an outright faster site to use. There's no need to remove the site altogether when it's easier and faster to use than the new one aside from lack of drawing.

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Leebo at 2021-09-30 04:13:09 UTC

New words are not the only kind of updates that have been made to the various databases. It's not unusual for things that were outright incorrect to be updated. We get requests for mistaken dictionary entries to get updated on the forum all the time. The language didn't change, but the fallible people putting the database content together fixed a mistake.

People saying "well, it's 99% okay now so that's fine" are 1) guessing at the number and 2) not acknowleding that that percentage can only go down as time moves on.

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MarcusR at 2021-09-30 07:31:01 UTC

If the data in Classic Jisho is around 10 years old as Kim says above, the JMdict file has grown from around around 150k to 192k entries in that time. Around 5000 incorrect or otherwise bad entries were also deleted during the same time span, so we're talking about a 30% (!) increase in good, trustworthy entries. JMdict is continuously updated every single day, not just with new entries but also with corrections and other improvements of old entries (and those updates make it over to "New Jisho" with max a small 2-3 day delay). To use Classic just because you prefer that design would really be doing yourself a big disservice.

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Kimtaro Admin at 2021-09-30 08:10:56 UTC

I'm answering in order of the replies in this thread.

@TheTripod It's interesting that you find the radical search on new Jisho to be slower. I'm wondering if this is a network issue, as new Jisho is hosted in eastern Canada, while classic Jisho is hosted in Dallas. Depending on where you are that distance can add a slight delay. I also want to mention that new Jisho is not a "modern JS heavy" website. Just like classic Jisho it's server side rendered.

If it's a UI issue, then that's hopefully something I can improve over time. One thing that's better with new Jisho's radical search is that since it has a fixed max width, radicals stay in the same place regardless of how wide you make the window. This makes it easier to remember where the radicals are located.

In terms of usage, classic Jisho is less than 0.3% of the traffic of new Jisho.

@Leebo I appreciate your support!

@Sitensis Yes, I agree with your first sentence. There are UI issues in new Jisho that I had hoped to fix sooner. But time is a finite resource. When I first created Jisho I was in university and had copious amounts of free time. Now I have a day job that I take seriously, and a family that I want to spend as much time as possible with. So naturally development is slower these days. However, I am as committed to the project as I have ever been.

As for your example, this depends partly on your screen size and how you use new Jisho. I do admit that there are some shortcuts that I could expose more clearly. But regardless of the path you choose (going by word or by kanji) new Jisho is faster:

By word: Type ura, hit enter, hover over "Links", then pick "Kanji details for 裏". You can now see the stroke order diagram as it sits higher on the page. On classic Jisho I have to scroll down since the meanings are displayed in a very inefficient manner.
By kanji: Type ura and press alt-control-K (on Safari on Mac, see https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Global_attributes/accesskey for other browsers/operating systems). This takes your straight to kanji results. Click on 裏. Done.

As for the stroke order diagram itself. I have to scroll horizontally on both sites to see the full diagram. So this might be dependent on your screen size. Regardless, the horizontal scroll was a mistake even on the classic site. It's something I intend to fix.

I'm not sure why you see jagged edged on new Jisho. On classic Jisho it's a 1x image that gets upscaled on modern screens and end up looking blurry. On new Jisho it's drawn directly on the page, so it should be at your native screen resolution. What browser, OS and screen do you use?

New Jisho is coded to work well on both mobile and desktop devices, it's by no means "pure mobile oriented". There might slightly more horizontal scrolling on new Jisho, but personally I find it vastly easier to read, as there is much less horizontal eye scanning needed to read entries.

@nwns I kept classic Jisho up to make the transition from that version to the new site easier for people. I never intended that people would recommend the classic site to others, especially considering that the content is vastly out of date. The new site will be improved over time. I just don't provide a definition of "time" ;)

@raishinpu As a non-native speaker of English I had to look up "demure", and I really appreciate that sentiment! Trust me, I am also nostalgic over classic Jisho, but it's time for me to let it go, so I can focus on making new Jisho even better.

I can't say whether I will implement a layout similar to classic Jisho, but it should be possible for someone to create a user style (https://userstyles.org) that accomplishes some of what you are looking for.

As for selecting which dictionary you want upfront, this is possible in several ways on new Jisho. Either type #kanji or #word together with what you are searching for. You can also click on "All" to the left of the search bar to select the dictionary. There's also browser access keys for these, A for all, K for kanji, W for words, S for sentences and N for names. The access key combo depends on your browser and operating system. There's a list here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Global_attributes/accesskey

@ScarlettDalila I agree that the sentence display can be improved on the new site. Overall I want to make the site easier to scan and read. This could be by improving the information architecture and adding more guiding elements like lines and colors.

@imomushiro In addition to the above reply about the sentence display, I am curious about the use case you mention. I would have expected it to be faster in new Jisho, as you can add the kanji found with the radical search directly to the search bar, whereas on classic Jisho you'd have to copy and paste kanji to another tab or window. Yes there's slightly more vertical scrolling on the results page depending on the results, but overall new Jisho has much better sorting, and doesn't break out words like あう into multiple entries, making for more efficient use of space. I'd be curious to hear more about your use case to make sure I understand it correctly.

@Jaraya You can get romaji results by adding the #romaji tag to your search.

@jishoborg There is a preliminary API that would allow you to implement your own result view for word searches. This forums thread serves as documentation: https://jisho.org/forum/54fefc1f6e73340b1f160000-is-there-any-kind-of-search-api

New Jisho is not a Bootstrap site, it uses https://get.foundation. Although going forward I will most likely just hand roll CSS instead.

I understand that there is slightly more vertical scrolling on new Jisho, but to me it is far easier to read and comprehend compared to classic Jisho. Classic Jisho was also created at a time when screens were smaller. Today on large screens it makes for a lot of horizontal eye scanning, which I find very hard for comprehension. Compact and info-dense was never my intent with either site.

@JimBreen Thank you for weighing in. It's unfortunate that you've had to answer questions about data that you had long since already updated. I should have shut down the classic site years ago.

@raishinpu I think the key here is that new Jisho is harder to use for a handful of people for some specific use cases. The traffic to the new site vastly outnumbers the traffic on the old site, even compared to back when the classic site was the only one available. So just looking at the numbers, most people prefer the new site, and at some point I have to concede that I can't satisfy every person's individual preferences. However I will strive to improve new Jisho, and I hope one day it will be at a point where you don't consider it unusable.

@ScarlettDalila I am removing classic Jisho because I can no longer support it. It's not just a matter of out of date data, I literally no longer remember how it works, and keeping it running becomes a larger and larger problem every year as the technology around it keeps evolving.

I am very interested in hearing how I can improve accessibility on new Jisho. It's something I absolutely want to improve.

@reptyle101 As I have stated before, it's not just a matter of old data. It's a technological issue to keep a site up that's built on technology I no longer work with.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dictionary-like" design when referring to classic Jisho. One of my intents of new Jisho was to make it more like a regular dictionary, and part of that was removing the table layout and adding more information to each entry.

@MarcusR Good timing :) You posted that as I was typing up this long reply, and I was just going to add to @Leebo's reply above that it's not just fixes, but also countless additions. That is a really interesting insight into just how much has been added an improved in JMdict over the years.

Everyone hoping I will keep classic Jisho running. I am sorry, but I will not. I have mentioned that the data is vastly out of date, and that I am no longer familiar with the technical architecture. But what is also important to consider is "bit rot". Over time, even for projects that aren't updated, keeping them running becomes progressively harder as technology around the project keeps evolving. For example classic Jisho doesn't use HTTPS for secure connections. Keeping it running is one thing, but I want the things I run to run well, and that is simply something I can not do anymore for classic Jisho, as much as it pains me.

I want to end by saying thank you to you all. I really appreciate the passion you are all showing for the classic site, and it makes me happy to have created something that worked so well for you for so many years. I am taking all this feedback to heart, and will endeavor to keep improving Jisho.

I also want to acknowledge and say thank you to @JimBreen and @MarcusR. You and your collaborators are the ones creating a majority of the data that Jisho uses. Without your hard work none of this would be possible. Thank you!

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imomushiro at 2021-09-30 08:47:54 UTC

@ Leebo & MarcusR

All the strengths of the current site still don't outweigh the some of the advantages of the more simple and dense classic format, for a lot of people and for a lot of applications. Of course not for everyone- and no one is arguing that classic is the more comprehensive dictionary out of the two versions.

There's a particular feature of the old site that I do miss with the new version: the ability to click on individual words in the sentence corpus as hyperlinks leading to their respective dictionary entries. Of course, this is an automated thing and sometimes the words may be parsed incorrectly, mostly when there is a long stretch of hiragana. I don't think there's much of a way to fix that.

But with the new site you need to manually copy-paste a word you want the definition of from the sentence, into the search box, having to scroll back up to the top of the page.

And if that word is a part of a phrase that has its own distinct jisho entry, where the same word takes on a slightly different meaning compared to itself in isolation, you might miss the better definition- especially if the phrase entry is too far down the page.

On the classic sentence page, on the other hand, the longest possibly sequence of a given selection of characters will always be the hyperlink. It is just faster to get to the pertinent information.

Just like having more entries on one page can make it faster to find the one you're looking for, oftentimes, as well as showing the reader a greater selection of related words, which for an agglutination language provides a good deal of context, and can be more educational than the same space taken up by a wikipedia entry.

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MarcusR at 2021-09-30 09:10:33 UTC

@raishinpu: "Even after ten years I imagine 99% of classic jisho data is still accurate, because the language itself hasn't changed that much. "

That's assuming all the JMdict data was perfect and entirely complete in 2011, which of course it wasn't. It still isn't, of course, but it's improved a whole lot. Let me try and qualify that with some more numbers: in addition to the almost 50,000 new entries not in Classic Jisho, around 35-40% of the remaining older entries have been updated at least once in the past 10 years. The entry "掛ける" has been refined/updated a whopping 19 times!

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TheTripod at 2021-10-01 12:13:17 UTC

@jishoborg probably put it best, the info density is just quite a step down.

If anyone cares also, someone has actually been kind enough to make a userscript for nu-Jisho to make it a bit more compact (but not quite classic jisho still). It's available here: https://rentry.org/p4gpw/raw#.user.js

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John_Chow_Seymour at 2021-10-02 18:51:34 UTC

Wow, I had no idea that classic and current jisho.org were accessing two different bodies of data. All this time had I assumed that the UI was the only difference. (As a side note, I'm interested in how you even accomplish that; did you clone the database ten years ago and use that instead of the 'live' one?)

So, I support your decision to remove it the old version.

That said, I am also someone who preferred the classic UI.

So! Rather than beg to keep classic around, I'll support your decision to try and continually improve the new jisho's UI. In addition to the many UI complaints already stated, here are some additional thoughts not yet mentioned in this thread:

(1) Put the link to the page that describes all the search options in a more prominent place.
I had no idea you could search with #common, #kanji etc. until I read it today in this forum thread. I honestly thought that you couldn't filter 'common words only' anymore in the new UI, it's one reason I kept using the old one. So make these more well known!
(Apparently it's on the main page of jisho.org. But with jisho.org pinned, I basically never see the 'front' page, I just see the previous result and search again from there. So something near the search bar on the results page(s) needs to let users know these hashtag options are available; knowing these makes the new UI usable again.)

(2) having the parallel English and Japanese search boxes was helpful because you could put data in both fields before searching.

For example: If I'm trying to remember that word for 'hometown,' was it しゅしん、しゅっしん、しゅうしん, or something else? Due to the way the entry is written, none of those words come up when I search for 'hometown' alone.

The solution was to give hints in both the English and Japanese fields. Since I know it starts with しゅ, so I'll type 'shu' into the Japanese search bar and 'town' into the English search bar. Sure enough that word I was trying to think of is among the results.
(Incidentally it's 出身, and it turns out that the person who taught it to me as 'hometown' wasn't quite using it correctly either. But with the dual search bars, I was still able to find it!)
So, maybe have a button there to bring up separate search fields for the people who want it that way and for those times when it's useful (as above). Maybe the button would toggle between the separated bars and the unified bar.

Thank you so much for being responsive to user feedback. I hope these suggestions are helpful, and best wishes as you continue to develop the site!

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Jaraya at 2021-10-03 12:30:24 UTC

First:
I hate having to memorize hashtags, it's much better to just click a checkbox.
Second:
How do I do this search on the new site?
http://classic.jisho.org/words?jap=ai&eng=love&dict=edict&romaji=on
by Google Translate

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jakobd2 at 2021-10-03 21:45:33 UTC

@John_Chow_Seymour

When you click on "All" button on the left to the search bar, you see the most common options (including "#common" directly available as buttons). Then there's also a link to the full list. The start page is also not the full list, so if you want to see all search options then go to the page that is linked there ( https://jisho.org/docs )

You can also just search for "home しゅ" or "しゅ home" to get the behavior you want. No need to have separate search bars.

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jakobd2 at 2021-10-03 21:46:45 UTC

@Jaraya You can search for "あい love #romaji"

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deeteecee at 2021-10-04 15:25:14 UTC

fyi, this one is crashing half the time when I'm searching for words. I'm also a guy that was stuck to using classic for a while

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Leebo at 2021-10-04 21:24:29 UTC

@deeteecee you're saying that current Jisho crashes your browser? I've never seen that happen.

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Kimtaro Admin at 2021-10-05 04:27:01 UTC

@imomushiro That's a fair point, and looking at my code it looks like I did intend to link words in sentences to searches but never got around to it. I'll see if it's something I can easily add. Otherwise I'll add it to my list of improvements to add with the next major version.

@John_Chow_Seymour Classic Jisho and new Jisho are two completely different sites. Different tech stacks, different databases and different servers. That's why they don't share the same database.

I really appreciate your support and your suggestions for improvements. I agree that the search options could be more prominently displayed, and it's something I will improve.

As @jakobd2 mentioned you can do that search by including both the Japanese and the English in the same query.

@deeteecee Sorry about that. A weekly maintenance task that ran this morning caused one of the Jisho servers to break. Normally I get alerts when this happens, but in this case the external service that checks that Jisho is up and running seems to have been served by the other server that was fine. So I wasn't alerted that something was off until I woke up and checked the site. I have added another service that checks for errors more granularly, so if this happens again in the future I'll be able to fix it more quickly. I'll also look into the root cause and try to fix it so that this particular error doesn't happen again.

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elrohir at 2021-10-05 05:30:21 UTC

I've been using classic Jisho since I first started studying Japanese nearly a decade ago, and one thing that I really appreciate about classic Jisho is information density. I can see 15 different search results that I can click into for more details on if I need them, whereas on new Jisho I can see one or two entries in the same amount of space. At this point in my studies, I use jisho not for definitions, but for finding words that I encounter while reading something I can't copy-paste that I may not be able to type all the kanji for (such as a really tiny or blurry word in a volume of manga, or a word in a novel where I don't know any readings for one or more of its kanji). In most cases, I can use the kanji by radicals feature to find kanji like that (both classic and new jisho are good for this), but in cases where I can't, I may have to scroll through many pages of jisho results to find the word I'm looking for. This is a really useful advantage that classic has over new when looking for jukugo because I can scroll through entries much more quickly. Would you consider implementing something like that in the future on new jisho, where users can choose to display leaner search results in favor of seeing more of them on the screen at once?

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Kimtaro Admin at 2021-10-06 03:35:43 UTC

@elrohir Thank you for the detailed explanation of your use case, that's very helpful. I can see how in this case the new Jisho can take more work to find what you're looking for.

I'll keep this in mind and will think about the possibility of adding more interface styles.

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se at 2021-10-09 11:35:32 UTC

I understand that the old site has to go at some point. I'm rather thankful it stayed up as long as it has. But I completely agree with OP's assessment of the new site, which kept me using the classic version. I'd really appreaciate it if a proper desktop view could be added that is a compact table and makes better use of horizontal space.

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jishoborg at 2021-10-14 07:19:28 UTC

Remembered that userscripts are a thing so went looking for one for jisho.org that did some reformatting; there are a number of them on Greasyfork, but none that were sufficiently classic.

So I made one to somewhat replicate the Classic layout. It's not as compact as the original, since I decided to retain current Jisho's large kanji word size. Classic's compromise of the hover over with a larger display was pretty much ideal in my opinion. If I feel more ambitious I may replicate this behavior later and reduce the default word size, but this will involve adjusting the furi as well.

https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/433871-jisho-org-jisho-modo

This userscript only is applied at the main Search page, if you click on the Details for an entry, you have the full New Jisho experience. Only tested with Blink, if someone has issues with a Gecko or Webkit browser, lemme know.

Anyway. FWIW.

https://files.catbox.moe/2d5tmn.png
https://files.catbox.moe/g3ganz.png

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