Jisho

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8 Replies ・ Started by ignatius_ra at 2020-06-04 06:06:33 UTC ・ Last reply by Leebo at 2020-06-07 23:18:40 UTC
This is a discussion about 瞑る

Confusing notes?

It seems like there are 2 readings for this single spelling of this word. The notes make it seem like there was another kanji used before, but now there's pointless repitition in the notes.

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ignatius_ra at 2020-06-04 06:06:59 UTC

*in the notes and 'alternate forms'

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Leebo at 2020-06-04 06:12:28 UTC

There are actually two different forms of the kanji. They just look so similar that it's not possible to see the difference in most fonts at that size. If you paste them into a word processor and blow up the size, you'll probably be able to see a difference between them in how the 日 part connects to the 六 part. They look the same at a typical scale, but they are actually different characters in the system, so that's why they're doubled up.

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Leebo at 2020-06-04 06:16:09 UTC

It's not a given that just because one pairing of obsolete kanji and reading is irregular that they all are, so it displays the note for each iteration that applies to it.

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HataReizu at 2020-06-05 07:18:03 UTC

When you want to say close your eyes in Japanese, you can either say 目をつぶる or 目をつむる, which are both entirely valid. This is why they show up in the section other forms. Another word this phenomenon occurs in is さびしい vs さみしい. Personally I say つぶる and さみしい. Note that not all the readings listed in 'other forms' are used, as some are old-fashioned or archaic, but for the words I listed above, both readings are used commonly. To Leebo, I'm not sure that there are two forms of 瞑, when I search it up on kanji.jitenon.jp, I only get one form. Actually after looking at it closely, I see 瞑 and 暝 which are not 2 forms of the same kanji but completely different kanji altogether. The difference lies in the 目 radical and the 日 radical, the latter meaning 'dark'. I guess this is one error in the entry.

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jakobd2 at 2020-06-06 07:43:52 UTC

暝 is listed here: https://thesaurus.weblio.jp/content/%E6%9A%9D%E3%82%8B But it's marked as iK (word containing irregular kanji usage) for a good reason in JMdict, because everyone else spells it with 瞑. And I don't know what Leebo is talking about, there are no two forms of 暝 here. It's both the same character, U+669D. They're indeed (uselessly) doubled up because of the two pronunciations for the entry.

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HataReizu at 2020-06-06 17:54:23 UTC

I understand why 暝 is listed now, it's because 暝 is a common misspelling of 瞑. Second, there is no real problem with having it 'doubled up' as you can simply ignore it and it's not really a big deal. I understand what Leebo is talking about, for example with the 少女 entry, the reading おとめ can apply to the jukugo 乙女 or 少女, but the reading しょうじょ can only apply to 少女. It is very valid advice that we should take into account when studying Japanese using this dictionary.

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Leebo at 2020-06-07 23:18:40 UTC

Yeah, I missed the radical difference and only noticed the difference in how it connects on the right side. But that doesn't really have much to do with the doubling up of the warnings, which I don't really see an issue with. Not every warning is necessarily going to apply to every possible reading.

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Leebo at 2020-06-07 23:18:40 UTC

Yeah, I missed the radical difference and only noticed the difference in how it connects on the right side. But that doesn't really have much to do with the doubling up of the warnings, which I don't really see an issue with. Not every warning is necessarily going to apply to every possible reading.

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