8 Replies ・ Started by ezura at 2020-02-03 16:15:11 UTC ・ Last reply by Kimtaro Admin at 2020-02-06 07:26:05 UTC

Request to have this sentence removed

I have found a lot of questionable content in example sentences, like this one, and usually look past the crudeness for sake of getting a good grasp of the language; but am I weak for finding this one too off-putting?

Fredora at 2020-02-03 16:42:03 UTC

I am from Europe and don't think there is anything particularly off-putting with this sentence.
There really is no need to have sentences like this removed.

omerfaruk at 2020-02-03 23:29:34 UTC

Actually not so much people uses this expression for a foreigner but it seems it has some "discrimination" meaning.

毛唐(けとう)は、本来は「毛唐人(けとうじん)」といい、毛色の変わった人たち、あるいは外国から来た人という意味。差別用語の一種とされる。 from wikipedia.

Leebo at 2020-02-03 23:33:01 UTC

Sentences come from the site Tatoeba. I guess Jisho might be able to manually block them, but they have enough on their plate already I think.

vladulenta at 2020-02-04 11:49:49 UTC

Learning a language does also mean learning the parts of it that may be off-putting to you or that you don't agree with,unfortunately.If this sentence is a good example of something you may hear,I think it's a good example sentence.I also think its pretty funny to learn what words mean using those kinds of sentences,it's some weird sort of irony.

ezura at 2020-02-05 01:28:16 UTC

I appreciate the discussion. I still believe this example sentence is inappropriate and particularly in this learning context. It is using a discriminatory term and it is in reference to someone using a Japanese dictionary. Reinforcing awful stereotypes, not just one. The English translation of the sentence itself is problematic: "dirty" is not even in the Japanese definition of the derogatory word in question. The word is not useful to know, and this sentence comes up under the 4th page in 方 kanji's sentence-lookup. It would be a different story if I had specifically looked up the offensive term, and the sentence were displayed there only. At the very least, the sentence should not come up so broadly.

Leebo at 2020-02-05 01:46:26 UTC

Still this is just a consequence of the decision to import sentences from a website where anyone can submit anything. That website, Tatoeba, might have its own standards and you might be able to join in discussion about it there, but if Jisho is going to use sentences from Tatoeba, committing to policing them is a lot.

ezura at 2020-02-05 02:35:13 UTC

”The example sentences in Jisho come from the Tatoeba project, which got them from a large collection of sentences compiled by Professor Yasuhito Tanaka at Hyogo University and his students, and later extensively edited by Jim Breen.”https://jisho.org/about.

Policing the sentences is not something I am suggesting, but I am highlighting one specific sentence which I think does not belong here. I wrote from interest in discussing this, but also because I really like Jisho and have recommended it to friends in the past. Unfortunately, seeing this sentence here makes me reconsider doing so in the future.

Kimtaro Admin at 2020-02-06 07:26:05 UTC

Dictionaries should reflect language as it is used, including rude and uncomfortable words. That being said, they also have editorial policies that give each dictionary a unique style when it comes to definitions and example sentences. Since Jisho uses data from other sources I'm mostly at the mercy of the editorial policies of those projects. But I can choose to exclude sentences from search results and have done so in the past when they don't match the style that I want Jisho to have.

In this case I agree that the sentence should not be part of Jisho, at least not until sentences can be marked as derogatory, like the headword 毛唐 is. I don't think this word necessarily needs an example sentence, and even if it did I would prefer one that explains the derogatory nature of the word. I'm going to remove this sentence from search results, but it will remain at its URL https://jisho.org/sentences/51866386d5dda7e9810005a1 and linked from this discussion.

to reply.