1 Reply ・ Started by shaunthesheep at 2018-11-28 22:38:07 UTC ・ Last reply by jakobd2 at 2018-11-30 14:43:26 UTC

odd quesつもん が hあve (zaru/ざる)

I'm currently reading examples with the verb+ざる (usually followed by [を]得ない in the examples). Just reading and rephrasing as many times as it takes.

Is it wrong to think of it's functions as:
verb+ざる、 as a mix of an involuntary+undesired action.
And [を]得ない、as being unable to "secure/contain" that 'undesired' verb contained..

Thankyou and have a good day

Appollogies if there is a delay in my reply, as i need to work out how to use the forum and set notifications..

jakobd2 at 2018-11-30 14:43:26 UTC

This may be interesting to you: https://www.imabi.net/zaruwoenai.htm

I would say ざる is just a conjugation into the negative, and 得ない being "cannot", thus meaning "cannot not X" when put together like this, as を is just a conjunctive particle.

Then it also makes sense that a speaker wouldn't go out of her/his way to use this double negative instead of just saying "must do" if there's not a desire to also communicate that not doing X would actually be preferred by them. But there's something out there not letting them not do it.

That's my take on it.

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